lil
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Posts: 19
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Post by lil on May 31, 2013 13:37:53 GMT -5
We very much appreciate all of the feedback you've been providing us - both on the forum and privately. We have some new ideas that we'd like your thoughts on. These are more variations on something you've seen already. Again, please note that we don't really know if these scenarios are feasible or not. We haven't run the numbers yet. They may be good/bad/a bit of both! We're just looking for your ideas and would like to hear your answers to these 4 questions. This is how we evaluate scenarios so putting your feedback in this format would be very helpful to us. In your opinion: 1. What are the strengths and weaknesses of each of these scenarions? 2. What opportunities do you see emerging from each? 3. What risks/threats/challenges do you perceive as a result? 4. Do you have any changes/ammendments to suggest? We are in preliminary stages and would like to treat this as a brainstorming excerise. In other words, we need to keep open minds and accept all ideas and comments as useful. We will have discussion at a later time to allow for debate. Scenario D/E Amalgamation Note: All scenarios assume Fisher Park's current 7/8s stay in the building and that Elmdale's English stream is divided as follows: E1 and E2 go to Hilson, E3 and E4 to Connaught and E5 to Cambridge. Maps for these areas (E1, E2, etc.) can be found here (scroll down): www.ocdsb.ca/sch/as/Pages/NearWest.aspxVariation #1 - Fisher Park Status Quo, Connaught dual-track JK-6 ENG/EFI, Cambridge dual-track JK-6 ENG/EFI.• New catchment for Connaught EFI: portion of E2 east of Ross/Clarendon, E3, E4 west of and including MacFarlane, CO1 west of and including Sherbrooke/Stirling + all of Mechanicsville (north of Scott between Parkdale and Bayview) • New catchment for Cambridge EFI: D1 and E5, CA1 becomes optional for Cambridge instead of Devonshire. • Not sure if Champlain Park students are currently bused to Elmdale. If so and it's necessary for numbers, they could be bused to Connaught instead. Variation #2 - Fisher Park EFI program of one class per grade added JK-6, Connaught dual-track JK-6 ENG/MFI, Cambridge dual-track ENG/ EFI. This is essentially a variant of the old Scenario B. • New catchment for Fisher EFI similar to Variation 1, except CO1 portion is west of Rosemount/ Carruthers and south of Armstrong, Mechanicsville remains at Devonshire. Champlain Park goes to Fisher as well. • New catchment for Connaught MFI is E1-4, CO1 and W2 • New catchment for Cambridge EFI is same as above Variation #3 - Fisher Park EFI program as above, Connaught dual-track ENG/EFI, potentially a seed EFI track (JK-3) at Cambridge.• New catchment for Fisher EFI is H2 east of Island Park, parts of E2, E4 and CO1 between Parkdale and Clarendon/Ross and all of E3 • New catchment for Connaught EFI is part of E4 between Parkdale and Fairmont (both sides) and CO1 between Parkdale and Fairmont (both sides, so that all of Irving goes east to Devonshire)/Merton, plus all of Mechanicsville. • New catchment for Cambridge seed EFI is D1 and E5 east of Preston. • Adjusted catchment for Devonshire includes "tree streets" between Preston and O-train in D1 and E5.
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megk
Junior Member
Posts: 92
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Post by megk on May 31, 2013 16:23:38 GMT -5
Areas E5 and D1 are not the same area and have no connection to one another, but for some reason you link them together. I'd like a better understanding of why.
I am one of the 5 families in E5 and we are not happy with Cambridge suggestion due to lack of walkable routes to school. As it has been pointed out, the city is working to make this section of Little Italy tied into the Civic Hospital area via walking/biking routes and new pathways over the O-Train. We've worked hard on preserving our area with all the development ongoing, yet the ARC group continues to ignore this, which is beyond frustrating.
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Post by cwhitehead on May 31, 2013 22:14:37 GMT -5
Areas E5 and D1 are both east of the O-train tracks and thus in Somerset Ward, not Kitchissippi (sp?). Furthermore, all of E5 and much of D1 are closer to Cambridge than Devonshire.
That being said, like Lil says above, we don't know if these scenarios are even viable at this point. Board staff are running the numbers for these. If the numbers are close to working, we would need to refine all the borders to make something that made sense from a neighbourhood perspective rather than just a line on a map.
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megk
Junior Member
Posts: 92
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Post by megk on Jun 1, 2013 7:20:37 GMT -5
It would be helpful to know which specific scenarios the Board staff are running since previously they had stated the time and effort in each scenario requires days of data gathering and investigate. If they are running the numbers on the specific scenarios above, which other scenarios are they currently working on?
I'm in E5 and it is equal distance between both schools via driving, slightly shorter distance to Devonshire walking & biking, but really they are exactly equal. It is definitely not "much closer".
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megk
Junior Member
Posts: 92
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Post by megk on Jun 3, 2013 7:26:17 GMT -5
Using the data on the links Lil suggested, I went through the numbers for the scenarios above to understand how the grades would be broken down in the school based on Lil's suggested boundary/catchments changes.
Scenario: Elmdale's English stream is divided as follows: E1 and E2 go to Hilson, E3 and E4 to Connaught and E5 to Cambridge.
Hilson EFI: E1 - has 0 students E2 - 212 Students (most chance of successful classes due to the even student breakdown in grades) - entire catchment moves together
Connaught EFI: E3 - 23 Students E4 - 155 Students - entire catchment moves together - student breakdowns evenly between each grade
Cambridge EFI: E5 - 3 students. - No class available. By 2014 implementation, Students per Grade 2 = 1, Grade 5 = 1, Grade 6 = 1
Variation #1: • New catchment for Connaught EFI: portion of E2 east of Ross/Clarendon, E3, E4 west of and including MacFarlane, CO1 west of and including Sherbrooke/Stirling + all of Mechanicsville (north of Scott between Parkdale and Bayview)
-> numbers support class sizes E2 : 212 students E3 : 23 students E4 : 155 students
• New catchment for Cambridge EFI: D1 and E5, CA1 becomes optional for Cambridge instead of Devonshire.
-> Difficult to make classes. Students all pulled from one catchment. D1 : 72 E5 : 3
-> By 2014 implementation, class breakdown would be: K - ? 1 - ? 2 - 18 3 - 7 4 - 18 5 - 15 6 - 3
Variation #3 - Fisher Park EFI program as above, Connaught dual-track ENG/EFI, potentially a seed EFI track (JK-3) at Cambridge. New catchment for Cambridge seed EFI is D1 and E5 east of Preston. D1 : 72 E5 : 3 -> Difficult to make classes -> By 2014 implementation: K - ? 1 - ? 2 - 18 3 - 7
Response: Based on the class sizes, Hilson and Connaught look like they could create very strong and vibrant EFI programs within the schools. Benefit is not touching Fisher Park. Keeps the kids from those catchments within their neighbourhoods and sends them to schools within the current boundaries (no new street crossings of Parkdale/Holland). Cambridge results in the smallest/weakest class sizes.
Note: based on the OCDSB data, in H3 and H1, the majority of EFI students go to Broadview.
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Post by cwhitehead on Jun 3, 2013 8:48:56 GMT -5
As you've pointed out, Meg, there is a large demand for EFI in the West side of Elmdale's catchment. It would make a lot of sense for an EFI program to be located at Hilson, or possibly even at Churchill. The only difficulty (and it's kind of a big one) is that both of those schools are close to capacity already, so it would be a huge disruption. The demand is west, the space available is east, so we get into making strange catchments in order to get Elmdale kids over to Connaught and Devonshire kids over to Cambridge. In the original staff report, they investigated moving the Alternative program from Churchill to Fisher Park to create another EFI school. I can't remember at this point why it didn't make sense.
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Post by nmcgill on Jun 5, 2013 12:23:03 GMT -5
Hi Christopher/Lil
Although D1 and E5 are in a different political ward, all of us who live in D1 and are west of Preston are much closer to Devonshire than to Connaught, even with the walk around the O-Train.
For example, my house is 350 m from Devonshire "as the crow flies"; about 700 m walking (cutting through Plouffe Park as many of us do). O-Train redevelopment of land (including the redevelopment of the warehouse at 1010 Somerset where the City is negotiating purchasing extra parkland) may make the walk-around route even closer.
I thought walkability and distance from school was a major principle for Devonshire parents. It certainly is for me. So is optimizing school space.
Also, Hilson is nearly as full as Cambridge is. According to the data packs, these are the area schools that have space:
Connaught: 221 current /231 projected Hilson: 83 / 59 Cambridge 107 / 88
Connaught has more than 2X the space available than Cambridge. It can easily accommodate a healthy dual EFI/English stream.
Cambridge is more comparable with Hilson. Cambridge can accommodate 4 to 5 extra classes; Hilson can accommodate 3 to 5 extra classes. Neither seems sufficient to accommodate a completely separate stream. Or one that would be an awkward minority within these school.
That said, I like most of amalgamation D/E with variant #1 but there are three major flaws within it.
1. The cachement for Connaught does not go far enough east. If you live two blocks away on Melrose (two blocks or 150 m away), you will be sent to attend Devonshire, a 850m to 900m walk away. This doesn't make sense. Proximity and walkability to school is a priority set by parents. Connaught's EFI cachement needs to be further east (to Fairmount? Just guessing there.)
2. It's questionable that the numbers will allow for Cambridge to sustain a healthy dual EFI/Eng stream program. Increasing Connaught's cachement, means that the boundaries for Devonshire can go further east (thus we don't have to go all the way to Elgin for EFI)
3. I'd also add that those of us who are closer to Devonshire than to Cambridge should have an option to attend either school (*if* - and it's seems a big *if* - Cambridge does go dual stream.)
I do agree that special programming added to Cambridge would be a good selling point for the school and a factor in helping make West Centretown a desirable place for families to live. Perhaps, an alternative program could be added since there is a great demand as for alternative elementary programming and our only options are far west (Churchill) or across the canal (Lady Evelyn). This program can be kept small, would optimize Cambridge's school space and invigorate that part of Centretown. It would also be a draw for those in the Near West who have considered alternative options but discounted them due to logistics because there is not a school close enough.
My thoughts, Nichole
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Post by karinaroman on Jun 5, 2013 20:19:00 GMT -5
upon first glance, variation 1 looks best. being in E4, I think it would be weird for us to split up the civic hospital community as it appears would happen in variation 3. I get why it works on paper in terms of proximity and balancing it out number-wise and geographically if doing dual track at both Fisher and Connaught. But from a community perspective, it doesn't make sense.
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Post by lisawhite on Jun 7, 2013 8:46:03 GMT -5
I very much agree with Karina that it would be unfortunate to split up a community. My family also lives in E4. I'm not sure what the "official" definition of The Civic Hospital Neighbourhood is, but I think of it as E3 an E4. All of the three D/E scenario variations slice that area up into 3 pieces. I think that would be a huge mistake for the community, which I why I do not like any of the D/E variations, and would prefer to see a different scenario altogether.
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Post by kellskitchen on Jun 7, 2013 10:20:49 GMT -5
I am certain that in the Civic Hospital community, there are children who go to SEVERAL different schools; private schools, alternative schools, Catholic schools, French Catholic schools, and Elmdale and Devonshire. The community is already 'split'. None of the other kids on my street attend Devonshire, and it's a refreshing change for my own kids to have friends outside of their daily school lives. Plus, when it comes time to go to Fisher (or high school) my kids will know kids from different programs rather than just the kids they've been with for 8 years.
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Post by nmcgill on Jun 7, 2013 12:16:58 GMT -5
This diversity is also true of my street. There are five families with kindergarten/school age children who attend five different elementary schools.
Again, this is special to Ottawa: To start off with we have four fairly healthy public school boards to choose from and that's even before we get to special programming (alt or EFI or ENG or special needs), consider private school options or home schooling. Surplus of choice is the default in Ottawa, making no one neighbourhood, or even street, uniform in terms of educational choices or preferences.
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james
New Member
Posts: 15
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Post by james on Jun 9, 2013 10:38:31 GMT -5
Of D/E my preference would be for variation 1 as it would require no changes to Fisher as it would be difficult to change the facility to accommodate young students. I like that EFI is being added to more schools as this is the direction Ottawa seems to be going. Not sure if Connaught would be more suitable to MFI as per scenario C since it may be a better fit in a quasi alternative school. Note that for any of the comments I've recently made I am not really looking at boundaries as it sounds they are in a high state of flux, and will according to what Jennifer McKenzie had said on the June 6 meeting potentially be rolled in segments at a time with possible accommodations made to special situations (grandfathering for some current students seems to be expected). She also indicated the city was good working with the OCDSB in providing safe crossings as required. Disclaimer- to a large extent we are not affected by any of the scenarios put forward by the review.
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